Welcome to Tribe Talk, where Bleacher Report's Tribe fans weigh in on the ups and downs of the Indians each week throughout the season.
This week we revisit our past discussion on the fate of manager Eric Wedge, ponder the value of a manager calling out a player in a public forum, and address a few more of the Tribe’s many pitching woes.
I would like to thank this week's participants Nino Colla, Dave Wiley, and The Coop for their contributions.
This discussion is open to all, so please feel free to comment below and pitch in your thoughts on the questions we're addressing this week.
Go Tribe!
1. After posting an encouraging 6-4 record in 10 games, the Indians promptly followed that up with a dismal 3-7 streak. Thus, after yet another stunning example of the team's inconsistency, it is hardly surprising that talk of Eric Wedge being fired has come to the forefront once again.
Given that, it may be time to revisit a discussion we had earlier this season: Is Eric Wedge going to get axed before the season is over? Further, it has been noted that Wedge has looked especially defeated in recent days. Has Wedge perhaps finally resigned himself and his team to failure?
Nino Colla: Is Eric Wedge getting fired before the season is over? A week ago I would have told you no. After hearing some of the uncertainty of owner Larry Dolan, I will say there is a slight opportunity.
It won't come from Mark Shapiro, though, as I think he's going to fight to the end to keep Eric around.
Now, should he be fired before the season is over? It depends on what you want to do this year.
If you want to make a run at it, you can still do it, but you need to fire him now if you want to have a shot. This team needs a spark and as we've seen with Colorado, changing the skipper is one way to do that.
If you don't have any interest in competing, I don't think it matters. Fire him now, fire him later, but I'm now coming over to the side that his time with the Tribe is over.
I've been one of his biggest supporters, especially this season, but I think he does look defeated.
Some of his players are starting to look defeated also and the little mistakes and how he manages have added up for me. It's time to make a move.
Samantha Bunten: I don't think we need to go over whether Wedge SHOULD be fired yet again, but I think it is worth revisiting the discussion on whether he WILL be fired, given recent events.
The team's performance appeared to get better for about a week, only to take a nosedive shortly thereafter and look perhaps even worse than it has all year.
Because we're talking about a move that would be made by the Indians’ big-decision-phobic front office, I wouldn't necessarily say that the team’s recent poor performance would be enough to get Wedge fired.
However, for the first time ever, there seems to be some indications that the tide has turned against Mr. Wedge among the opinions of those whose opinions matter, perhaps suggesting that even they have had enough.
Dolan's trip to Chicago last weekend and his vague comments about "not wanting to lie" when asked if Wedge was going to be canned were a noticeable departure from the usual "we're standing by Eric Wedge" broken record response from ownership and the front office. Yikes.
As to why Wedge looks defeated, I would say it is because he's noticed the same thing the rest of us did: There's finally a change coming, and it doesn’t bode well for him.
I still wouldn't be surprised if the Indians allow Wedge to finish out the year, but if they do, I think it is safe to say that he will be doing so as a lame duck.
Dave Wiley: Consider this: Eric Wedge went through his entire adolescence with a last name consistent with a giant tug on underpants.
Personally, I'm thinking if you can withstand that, then what is going on with the Tribe and the possibility of getting fired is a walk in the park.
Getting fired and having to coach the Washington Nationals next would probably be the equivalent of the mega-Wedge.
The Coop: Do I want Wedge to be fired? Heck yes! Do I think he will be fired? No way!
In all fairness, I have to look at the situation objectively. Are the injuries his fault? No. Are the repeated bullpen meltdowns his fault? No. Is the lack of timely, clutch hitting his fault? No.
So this is why he looks so dejected and defeated. Too bad. Someone needs to be held accountable. After all, they are the worst team in the American League.
Most nights, they look like amateurs, and to me, this is a direct reflection of the manager.
The bigger problem is that this isn’t the first season that they’ve been a huge disappointment. So blame 2008 on injuries and the bullpen all you want: It’s just another lost season under Wedge’s watch.
Personally, I think both Wedge and Shapiro should be canned immediately. Unfortunately, this won’t happen.
A few weeks ago, I said the reason was because the Indians were just a hot-streak away from moving up the standings in the terrible AL Central. Now, it’s more likely that management will use the injuries and other excuses as a reason to keep Wedge.
Wedge and Shapiro are tight; remember, Shapiro fired Charlie Manuel (you know, the World Series Champion) and hand-picked Wedge. He’s not going anywhere. It makes me sick.
2. Last week Kelly Shoppach became the most recent player to be publicly chastised by Eric Wedge for his play this season. While it is hard to find much fault with Shop's performance behind the plate, his performance in the batter's box has been truly awful.
Do you think Wedge was right to call Shoppach out in a public forum for his disappointing hitting? What do you think is wrong with Shoppach that has caused his offensive production to decline so sharply this season?
Nino Colla: If I can, Shop has been pretty awful behind the plate as well. His defense has fallen off the track since his first year with the Tribe.
Wedge has no right to call out a player's performance in my opinion.
I fully support him calling out a Jhonny Peralta for not playing hard or being a jerk for not wanting to play third. I do not support him calling out Shoppach though, because as much as I'm disappointed in him, he always plays hard.
Nothing is wrong with Shoppach. This is him. He's a back-up catcher for a reason and he's proving it.
Last year, he hit a lot of home runs because he got a lot of fastballs. He's a fastball pull hitter who has bigger power than anyone else on this team.
But he has no eye and no plate discipline. Now that the opposition is aware of his game, they will not give him the fastball to pound. The solution is to not play him as much as Wedge has been, but don't tell that to Eric.
Samantha Bunten: While I readily acknowledge that Shoppach's performance this year has been sub par, I'm not sure I agree with Wedge's decision to publicly go after him.
Jhonny Peralta has spent years being lazy and indifferent and had the audacity to whine about a position change, so I fully support Wedge each and every time he calls out Peralta because what he is addressing is Peralta’s lack of effort.
But going after Shoppach, a guy who gives 150 percent every day? That doesn't sit right with me.
As for what might be wrong with Shop, I think it is pretty obvious he's pressing. Who wouldn't, after fighting for and perhaps arguably winning the starting catcher's position last year, only to arrive this year to find himself once again in the midst of one of Eric Wedge’s ever-present platoon schemes?
Add the trade rumors to that, and it becomes pretty clear why a player might press so hard that his performance suffers noticeably.
Dave Wiley: No. I don't think it is ever the correct call to place someone in the public forum like that. Bad move by the Wedge-meister.
If I were Shoppach, I would respond publicly by saying "Well, at least I've never worn a 'Porn-stache'".
One thing I've always admired about Wedge was the fact he didn't publicly challenge players like a five-year old. Let me cross that bit of father-figurehood off my list of "Reasons to keep Wedge".
Hmm...after crossing that off, there is nothing left on my list.
The Coop: This episode by Wedge is exactly why I despise him. Going after the backup catcher? Are you serious?
I looked up Shop’s career statistics. The guy has never hit above .261.
In 2008, he struck out 133 times in 352 at-bats (38%). This year (through Monday), he’s struck out 49 times in 132 at-bats (37%).
My point is, we’re not exactly talking about Mike Piazza or Johnny Bench here, folks. And he’s still on pace to have close to the same HRs and RBIs as last year.
Has Shoppach stunk it up this year at the plate? Definitely. He's pressing, just like everyone else. But for Wedge to call him out is bush league.
The fact that he’s hitting poorly this year is about 99th on the list of 100 reasons why the Indians are terrible this year.
3. At a time when the Indians are desperate for any shred of good news about pitching they can get, they have instead been dealt another staggering blow: Jake Westbrook has had a setback in his rehabilitation yet again and his return date has been pushed from late June/early July to late July/early August.
Do you see this as an indication that Westbrook will never make it back to being the pitcher he once was, or is it merely a delay in Westbrook's return and just another stroke of bad luck for the Indians?
Nino Colla: Jake Westbrook had hit no snags in his comeback trail up until this one. I call it his luck running out.
I can't think of a Tommy John surgery that didn't take at least a year plus to come back from, so really the set-back is disappointing, but it should have been expected.
Honestly, at one point last season and in the off-season, I wasn't even expecting Westbrook to be back this year at all.
But Jake is a fighter and he's going to do his best to get back as quickly as possible. I don't see this as anything much. It's his first set-back, and I was quite shocked he didn't really have one until now.
It sucks that it happened so close to his return, but if it happened a few months ago, you would have just looked over it.
Samantha Bunten: Ultimately I think Westbrook will be OK. The setback isn't the kind that indicates anything serious, at least at this point.
The greater problem is that the Indians have been hanging a great deal of their hopes on the "Much Anticipated Return of Jake Westbrook.", which has reached nearly mythic proportions.
If anyone truly believes that Westbrook is going to rescue this team, I would have to wonder if they have ever actually seen the guy pitch.
Westbrook is a number three starter on a good day. Most days he's a number four or five guy who is now also coming back from major surgery.
In other words, he’s a solid back-end starter, not the franchise’s potential savior. With no disrespect to Westbrook, if the club is hanging our last hopes on the likes of him, then Tribe fans have every reason to start Waiting Til Next Year right now.
Dave Wiley: I still think Westbrook has a chance of coming back. I don't see any reason to rush a guy back to a team that can't hold a 7-0 lead.
I say rent him a condo in Disney World and tell him not to hurt his arm hoisting brewski's while he's there and we'll see him next year.
The Coop: I like Jake Westbrook, and for his sake, I hope he makes it back and finishes his career in an Indians uniform. That would truly make me happy.
But again, what are we talking about here? The guy has a career record right around .500 and an ERA over 4.00. He’s possibly a No. 3 guy in the rotation for the Indians right now, but no more than a No. 4 guy for teams that are contending.
To me, Jake is a very average pitcher whose prospects of ever being average again just took another hit. It would be great if he could come back, but I’m not counting on it.
He’s a 32 year-old guy who has had major arm surgery. The odds are certainly against him. The Indians had better start developing their young arms, and quick.
4. David Huff was a much-ballyhooed prospect for some time before he was called up to the majors, one who many predicted to be The Next Big Thing for the Indians as early as this year. After getting the call, Huff is 2-2 with a 7.09 ERA.
What do you think the future holds for Huff? Are his poor stats simply a reflection of being called up before he was truly ready to help a desperate ball club, or is he simply not turning out to be the pitcher many predicted he would be?
Nino Colla: I think it's just him being a rookie. It's early for him. I went to the best game he pitched against St. Louis and I was really impressed.
He is Cliff Lee-like to a T. Once he figures himself out at the big league level and adjusts, he's going to be good.
He has great command of his pitches and, while I think the "The Next Big Thing" tag is a little much, he's going to be a solid MLB pitcher.
Samantha Bunten: Like every other pitcher called up to bail out a failing big league club, Huff got a bit of a raw deal.
He was probably called up before he was ready. Some players rise to this challenge. Others, like Huff, do not.
But that doesn't mean he isn't capable of being a solid starter down the road.
Ironically, at this point it would be hard to explain sending Huff back down to AAA, since as much as he has struggled on the mound, he has actually fared better than most of the Indians' other options.
Still, the Indians aren't doing Huff any favors by keeping him in the majors when he isn’t ready, and in the long run this won't be doing the team any favors either.
Dave Wiley: David Huff's stats remind me of the statistics of a much-maligned Detroit Tigers squad a couple years ago.
When things are bad, they are bad for everyone. Last year, the Indians caught fire after the All-Star break, ending up at .500 for the year. I don’t see that same thing happening this year.
Huff finishes with a winning record. Indians don't make .500.
The Coop: David Huff is a great example of why Tribe fans should not be so eager to buy into the hype surrounding their prospects.
Understandably, we all hope that we’ve got the Next Big Thing on our hands. But lately, it seems like the Indians have tons of “Next Big Things” in their farm system that end up being very mediocre ballplayers at the next level: (Kelly Shoppach) or those who cannot sustain their success (Fausto Carmona).
Specifically regarding David Huff, I do think that he has a chance to be a reliable No. 3 or No. 4 starter for the Indians.
Even though his stuff is far from overpowering, and he works behind in the count way too much to be successful. He was definitely called up too soon for my liking, but the Indians' hands were tied.
For a 25-year old rookie, he has shown flashes of brilliance that lead me to believe that with the proper coaching, development, and experience, he could be a solid back-end of the rotation type guy (The next Jake Westbrook?).
5. On Monday, Grady Sizemore stated that he would be rejoining the Indians Tuesday at PNC Park to face the Pirates rather than going on a rehab assignment first.
Sizemore says the Indians left the decision of whether to rehab or come straight back to big league action up to him. Do you support Sizemore's decision to jump right back into things, or do you think it was foolish of the Indians not to insist on a rehab assignment first?
Nino Colla: Nope. Rehabbing is going to do nothing for Grady Sizemore. Either he's ready to go or he's not, there is no sense in going on a minor league trip. I'm fully with Grady on his decision.
Samantha Bunten: I know the front office hasn't exactly dazzled anyone with their brilliance lately, but I am surprised they were foolish enough to truly leave this up to the player, and especially a player like Grady.
Sizemore is one of the hardest working, toughest players in the game. If one of his legs fell off, he'd shrug and say he was alright to play, which is exactly why the decision should not have been left up to him.
While Sizemore's toughness is rare and admirable in a baseball player, it also makes him unqualified to make such a decision.
Lucky for all involved, Sizemore's first day back left no cause for further concern and showed Grady might truly be back to being Grady.
However, this should have the front office heaving a huge sigh of relief rather than patting themselves on the back. They should count themselves very lucky that Sizemore's call turned out to be the right one.
Dave Wiley: Jump on in! Who needs rehab? Rehab is over-rated. Rehab is for players to work themselves back into competitiveness.
Playing for the Indians is similar to going to the minors anyhow, so why not just head on back? The downside of skipping rehab is for Grady is that he has to report back to the Indians.
The Coop: When I read that the Indians left this decision up to Sizemore, I almost fainted. I thought it was a joke. You’re talking about the face of the franchise here. Exactly what medical expertise does Grady have that would qualify him to make this decision on his own?
Of course, I don’t blame Sizemore at all. Dude is a gamer and just wants to be out there and help his team.
But the Indians front office should be ashamed. If this ends up making his injury worse, Tribe fans should immediately storm The Pro and call for Mark Shapiro’s resignation. I cannot believe they’re letting this happen.
That said, he looked great in his first game back vs. Pittsburgh. But the Indians should be looking at this situation and what is best for the team and player in the long-term.
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